25 Traditional Marriage Talking Points from Peter Scaer – But Use Advisedly

07 Dec
All marriages are an icon of The One True Marriage.

All marriages are an icon of The One True Marriage.


One of the best defenders of natural marriage in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LC-MS) is Peter Scaer, a professor from Ft. Wayne theological seminary. He recently posted this on his FB feed:

:Hmmm. The marriage debate is a tough one. On the one side we have Moses, Jesus and St. Paul. Aristotle and Cicero. All the poets from Homer and Virgil to Dante and Shakespeare. All the heroes of our nation, from Washington to Lincoln to MLK. Not to mention our grandparents and their grandparents, and their grandparents for all the generations that have been. On the other side, we have the deep wisdom of the enlightened decade that brought us Desperate Housewives and Jersey Shore.”

I like that approach – seems like a good, dismissive way to lead off the public debate in most cases these days – but do it with a smile (on the other hand, of the 500 or so students I’ve had the past 5 years, I’ve never met a person who didn’t really seem to want to intelligently discuss the issue – the main problem is powerful and influential elites, I think). Another commenter, who’ll I’ll simply refer to as the Fearsome Pirate (not the Pirate Christian), felt the same way. First, he said, jokingly: “Actually, they have the right to get married to someone of the same sex. It’s in the Constitution.” Explaining himself, he put it this way:

It’s not a debate. It’s a power struggle. On the one side, we have people who have been retreating from every sphere of public life after ceding the moral high ground to their enemies. On the other side, we have the people who control the universities, the television, the primary schools, the media, and the courts.

I agree with this man (Scaer did as well). Christians need to recognize that for many powerful persons this was not a debate (or if you think “debate” is too harsh, a “serious discussion”), and never was. Even as we insist that life, and the words we speak, are about more than power, we need to recognize that those who oppose us may or may not believe that. Many don’t – particularly many persons wielding earthly power.

This commenter went on to say:

I know I’m a broken record on this…but it bears repeating over and over. We know what happened in the mainline churches—true believers allowed the godless to ascend to positions of power in a spirit of liberality and tolerance. Their generosity was “repaid” them sevenfold by their enemies. The same happened with Christians in the kingdom of the right hand as in the left.

Scaer responded by saying “Yep. We pretend we are being nice, when we simply don’t want to be the bastards we need to be to be good. Call crap for what crap is.

Shortly after that post, he produced these talking points, which I recommend for people you find really do want to think about and reason about this issue. Again, I think that this kind of person is pretty rare (among the elites), and that joyful scoffing should probably be our default approach:

1. Marriage is the only institution that binds a man to his wife, and to any children that result from that union.
2. Only the union of one man and one woman is able to produce a child, and for that reason, there is marriage.
3. Every child is the result of the union of one man and one woman, and should have a reasonable expectation that those same parents will care for her.
4. Mothers and fathers are not interchangeable. A child does best when he has both a mother and a father.
5. Only a woman can be a mother, and only a man can be a father. Mothers offer nurture unique to motherhood, and fathers offer the unique leadership and protection of a father.
6. Each one of us has a respiratory system, a cardio-vascular system, and a digestive system, whole and intact. Only the reproductive system is different, made whole only in the union of one man and one woman.
7. By redefining marriage, we fundamentally reorient marriage to romantic love, away from care for children.
8. Redefining marriage will result not in a change of definition, but the loss of definition all together. Already, groups are pushing for polygamy and polyamory.
9. At the birth of every child, the mother, by the very nature of things, is present. Marriage is the one institution that encourages, incentivizes, and obligates the father to be present as well.
10. Some ask, “How will same-sex marriage affect me?” Changing the definition of marriage will be harmful to the institution itself. Consider, for instance, the way that no- fault divorce laws have hurt our society, and left so many of our children abandoned and unprotected.
11. Marriage is the fundamental building block or cell of our civilization. Without marriage, society, inevitably in the form of bigger government, will have to fill the void.
12. Our society already suffers from fatherlessness. Without fathers, children are more likely to grow up in poverty. Without fathers, boys often become violent, looking to gangs for male bonding. Without fathers, girls often lack self-esteem, and end up making bad and harmful choices. Fathers are needed more than ever, and same-sex marriage makes fathers optional.
13. While it is good to have a mother and father, it is not healthy to grow up with two mothers, who will then vie for the affection that belongs naturally only to one.
14. As same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land, Christians will be increasingly persecuted for their belief. Already, florists have been driven out of business, as have hotel operators. Teachers will be forced to teach that which is clearly against God’s will. The very profession of the Christian faith will be labeled hate speech.
15. As same sex marriage becomes the law of the land, values such as permanence and exclusivity will be difficult not only to maintain, but even support.
16. As same sex marriage becomes the law, the institution of marriage, having lost real meaning, falls into disuse. Of this, we already have evidence in the countries who have taken the lead. Why do we need to be lemmings?17. Same-sex marriage will further sever the ties between biological parents and their children.
18. Parents, not the villages, are our children’s best defenders. Think of China, where children are thought of as a commodity, a flock to be culled or cultivated according to the needs of the state.
19. Same sex marriage encourages a culture in which children become cards to be bought, sold, and traded.
20. Consider who is pushing same-sex marriage. It’s hardly a grass roots effort, but is funded with big money by the likes of George Sorros, the Ford Foundation, and all the usual suspects.
21. The Left has been about the business of systematically subverting societal institutions, and this is the Big Kahuna, the ultimate prize.
22. Same-sex marriage is not a civil rights issue. Whether you are black or white makes no difference, but men and women are different, biologically, psychologically, and emotionally. From our differences, new life comes into the world, and with our complementary differences, we are best able to support and nurture the next generation.
23. Planned Parenthood understands what’s at stake. No lover of children, they have come out strongly for gay marriage. But then, this is the perfect marriage for PP, for it is inherently no reproductive.
24. And , as PP recognizes, pro-marriage is pro-life.
25. Traditional marriage is the best social program in history, as well as the bedrock of a republic, a mediating institution recognizes the primacy of family.


Note: Post has been updated for the sake of clarity, grammer errors, etc.


Posted by on December 7, 2016 in Uncategorized


5 responses to “25 Traditional Marriage Talking Points from Peter Scaer – But Use Advisedly

  1. Lance Brown

    December 19, 2016 at 7:10 am

    I have no interest in arguing for homosexual marriage or any other way of redefining marriage that denies the basic truth that we are created male and female. I don’t disagree with Dr. Scaer’s talking points. But notice that they are mostly about how natural marriage benefits society and children. I would suggest that there is a different (though related) way this issue should be looked at. See this post questioning marriage from the Right, from the perspective of a conservative heterosexual American male:

    ‘Challenge: Give Just One Good Reason For a Man to Marry’

    I would draw a distinction between ‘natural marriage’ on the one hand (which this post does a great job of defending) and ‘traditional marriage’ on the other hand. I think traditional marriage has already been redefined. And not for the better. In order to promote natural marriage more effectively I think Christians and cultural/social conservatives need to make traditional marriage more attractive to straight men.

    I’d be curious to see how you would respond to the perspective exemplified by the linked piece.

    • infanttheology

      December 19, 2016 at 3:24 pm


      You mean I just can’t condemn all of them for being selfish and not willing to simply accept whatever society tells them to do? Seriously, that kind of response would be part of the problem even as rejection of tradition/authority more broadly (and not just tradition as its been presented to us in the past 50 years) is indeed also the problem as well…

      Maybe more later. Have to get my wife’s opinion… : )


  2. infanttheology

    December 24, 2016 at 1:39 pm


    I guess I think the author makes a lot of good and very strong points, but, to be honest, I just don’t have time to defend marriage to persons who would argue that its not a good thing (this includes but is not limited to one’s own personal happiness) or that they aren’t convinced that it is.

    (at the same time, I think its pretty clear that the author himself does think marriage is valuable, even as, in order to reach others with his message, he provocatively states things the way he does!)

    Going along with the theme of this blog post (dismissiveness!), the only quick proper response to that, I think, is that those of us who have been blessed to know good marriages – made up of good men and women – know better.

    The problem of course is that goodness is in much shorter supply these days and many just don’t know much of it.

    “Ideally, but this isn’t guaranteed, and it often isn’t the case, and this can be done without marriage. 40% of “first” marriages end in divorce, with 70% of divorces being filed by the woman….”

    That is a key statisitic, I think – there are certainly a lot of women to avoid like the plague. And the cultural double-standards the author mentions as regards husbands and wives are certainly there as well.

    Still, there are good women out there though! Marriage is a good thing and good marriages and good marriage habits (with more traditional sex role considerations being in the mix here) should be encouraged. Some guys will not be convinced, but while I will listen and commiserate with them (and maybe even trying to work for change with them to some extent – see Cassie Jaye’s “Red Pill), I can’t waste too much time trying to convince them…. Frankly, to say that Peter Scaer’s list doesn’t really talk about how marriage benefits men personally in some way is to be a wee bit shortsighted, to say the least. Um, we need children and children need fathers?

    And yes, there is a lot of suffering that comes even in a good marriage. The blogger’s post seems to run from that – from the point that such burdens help us grow, build character, learn to sacrifice, etc. (again, he has his reasons, I think, for approaching things the way he does)

    Still, that said, this looks ridiculous:

    This kind of approach certainly cheapens the good and serious points the blogger makes…


  3. infanttheology

    December 24, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    from that CPH book:

    “What does it mean to be a man? Sacrifice.”

    All of us, men and women, are called to sacrifice. And all of us are feminine in relation to God.

    This kind of rhetoric just doesn’t work with me and isn’t going to work for men – particularly those observant and motivated enough to point out the kinds of things the author of the post you reference does….


  4. Nathan A. Rinne

    February 7, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    More from Peter Scaer:

    Unnatural Marriage: The Suicide of the West

    The fact that supposed conservatives have gone soft on natural marriage demonstrates only that they have never thought the issue through. As we move to polyamory and incest, it’s worth our time and brainpower. What people do not seem to understand, nor have they ever thought about, is that marriage is more than a consensual relationship between two people. Due to its nature, it involves children. Gay marriage purposefully deprives a child of a mom or dad. As gay marriage is not naturally procreative, it depends on the male-female union for its children. This means encouraging surrogacy, and IVF, which typically ends in multiple abortions. (Why the pro-life movement is not all over this, I’m not sure. Well, I am. It’s a difficult reality, one that we would rather not think about.)

    The truth is, society cannot be healthy if the institution of marriage is sick. Marriage protects women at their most vulnerable stages in life. It turns boys into men, channeling their strengths towards productive ends. It protects children, providing a well balanced upbringing, providing a role model from each sex. Truth is, girls and boys prosper with a dad at home. And who can deny the centrality of a mother’s nurturing love? Where homes are broken, the streets are unsafe, crime rates rise, and children are left confused. As such, this is an issue of justice.

    And, as others have noted, the values of monogamy, exclusivity, and permanence are tied to natural marriage. Apart from the male/female union, such values are arbitrary. So, it is no surprise that we see the rise of polyamory, and movements toward temporary marriage.

    And, oh yeah. Marriage is supposed to produce children, something that hasn’t been happening nearly enough in the West for years. We’re in demographic quicksand. Europe is up to its chest, and it coming up on our own waist.

    Those conservatives who have not thought this through should think before it’s too late. For a land without natural marriage will necessarily become totalitarian. Apart from the family, the foundational institution, there is only government, to provide all our needs, secure our future, from cradle (if we happen to make it past the abortionist) to grave (which might be for us an earlier fate as euthanasia sweeps its way across the land).

    But instead of fighting we feed the beast, hoping it won’t devour us. Meanwhile, as the rainbow flag is planted in institution after institution, the Crescent and Star waits in the wings, ready for a bigger meal still.


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