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Sharks and hell

19 Jun
Yes, I will admit hard to imagine in a pre-fall, "very good", state.

Yes, I will admit hard to imagine in a pre-fall, “very good”, state.

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“Dad, why did God make sharks so that they eat other animals?”

So my four year old asked me this question out of the blue two nights ago – well, right after asking me if sharks, crocodiles and sea monsters were real.

What would you say?

Ugh.

Ugh.

I said:

Some people just think that this shows God has a hard edge – sure He is loving, but still… in some ways, He is very hard”.

Others say that animals eat other animals because of the curse, and I think they are right.

When Adam and Eve sinned, the creation fell with them. God had given Adam and Eve great power and when they disobeyed Him and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they threw the whole creation into chaos.* They started getting old, and would die. Things started to decay and disintegrate. Animals started to eat one another…

A few weeks ago on a blog, a man known as the GeoChristian linked me to his blog post about animal death before the fall.

Being firmly unconvinced by his post, here is how I replied to him:

Much better... (see here)

Ahh…. Much better… (see here)

I guess I, sensitive guy that I am, am just fundamentally incapable of interpreting God’s evaluation of “very good” in a way that permits carnivorous activity. God said the world, not the garden, was “very good”. You say: “A related passage is Romans 8:20-22, which states that the whole creation groans. Just like in Genesis 3, the passage does not state the nature of that groaning, and it doesn’t necessarily include death” and it is pretty much impossible for me to think that groaning and death do not go hand in hand. Looking at it briefly, Psalm 124:1 “The lions roar for their prey and seek their food from God” is not glorifying God because of predation per se, but is glorifying God because all creation seeks their sustenance from him. I Tim 4:4 is simply saying that “everything created by God is good”, which is certainly true – but he does not create that which infects his good creation by the curse of original sin. As for teeth indicating predation, we know that doesn’t work. Kevin, I’m guessing I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me. I don’t consider myself a hard core YEC – I just like to listen widely to the various views.”

In short, I find the idea that God built suffering, death and decay into the original creation – as if this is “very good” – even more disturbing than the idea of eternal punishment. Why?  Death, decay and destruction are not very good and I see no reason, biblically or otherwise, to think they are (am I simply irrationally sensitive, being repulsed and wanting to turn away, for example, from carnivorous assaults as I do?).  On the other hand, it is clear that eternal punishment is not the way it is supposed to be – nor is it supposed to be for men, but for angels.

That’s where I think the accent needs to go. You see, I think God hates eternal punishment more than I do.

Of course, I still believe in it because I think the words of Jesus – kind Jesus – point to this reality. Others these days are calling this into question left and right** – it is certainly something that needs to be addressed and dealt with more.

FIN

* So get what this kid – 4.5 years old – asks me last night….  As I laid down with him in bed to tuck him in, he peppered me with theological questions and commentary for what must have been a good thirty minutes or so. I don’t recall the exact words that he used, but at one point I am pretty sure that he basically asked me whether or not the curse was enacted by a direct act of God in response to Adam and Eve’s unbelief or whether it came about by a release of some kind of power from the tree itself, as its true use had been violated. I told him I wasn’t sure, as I said to myself “Why had I never thought about it that way?”

This kind of thing happens more often than one might think (post from 3 years ago on kids asking very hard theological questions)… I feel blessed to know that I have a son who is proud about how he believes in God and wants to share that with me.

** The very gifted and popular Eastern Orthodox blogger Al Kimel has been doing a lot of stuff arguing against the traditional view of hell, and linking to others doing the same, for instance: http://afkimel.wordpress.com/2014/06/17/scot-mcknight-and-the-immortality-of-the-soul/

 
1 Comment

Posted by on June 19, 2014 in Uncategorized

 

One response to “Sharks and hell

  1. John

    December 1, 2020 at 9:12 pm

    What difference does it make if evil animals like sharks, hawks and lions were made after “the fall” The point is it’s wrong to cause suffering, pain and make animals scream (like rabbits do) because some person did something wrong, so therefore god is a sociopath. And secondly if it wasn’t after “the fall” he still is a sociopath. So was jesus, he killed animals and took little lambs to get their throats slit. You talk about how proud you are that you’re son believes in god, but lol if he saw all the animals tortured by other animals and saw that jesus didn’t care if a baby animal was killed he’d be really pissed off. Kids know more about the truth then adults do, and kids only believe in god because they are brainwashed by parents like you, ditto for Santa Claus, one of the biggest cons in the world (and quite immoral and disrespectful to children and to the real St. Nicholas I might add. Why do Christians love to lie so much? It is serious problem, in adoption too). Anyway I think you are wrong and I agree more with the theory that there were horrible animals before “the fall”, that is if there even is a god at all, which I highly doubt. A big fat demon hovering over the earth torturing children, adults and animals, yeah but a good god? ROTFLMAO! Man, get a brain..

     

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