There are few men I respect as much as Pastor William Weedon. The man is knowledgeable, passionate, and kind to a fault. Not to embarrass Pastor Weedon too much, but when I talk about sanctification and holiness, his name comes to mind (and another Lutheran saint in particular, Pastor Kurt Marquart).
In a recent post by Anthony Sacramone of the Strange Herring blog, he spoke of how Lutherans are boring, and I gladly linked to that post. Now, I found on his blog the two videos in this post featuring Pastor Weedon. It them, he is talking with a group of Lutheran pastors about how and why he almost left Confessional Lutheranism for Eastern Orthodoxy, and this is not boring in the least.
If you are curious about this topic, you’ll want to give this talk a listen. If you are not that curious, you may also want to give it a try. Pastor Weedon is a very easy man to listen to – and I must say, a very fine apologist for Lutheranism.
He talks about “waking up from an enchantment – a beautiful dream – that wasn’t real”.* What does this mean? Check it out. If you don’t have time for both parts – and I strongly recommend both parts – part 1 can certainly stand alone.
FIN
*You’ll also hear an interesting line about venerating the icons of the fathers vs. actually reading what they wrote.
theology like a child 
D. Stall
August 29, 2014 at 11:30 pm
Abba Sisoes does not beg for more time for repentance, or say that he has not even begun to repent after a lifetime because his conscience has nothing sure on which to rest. It’s his humility speaking which does not believe there is any worth in his self or any of his WORKS, not even his repentance. His face shines like the sun because in his humility whereby he sees himself as nothing and God as everything, he has communion with God (perfection), with Light Life and Love. His face shines just as Moses face shone after seeing the backside of God on Mt. Sinai, and as the Lord Jesus Christ shone at his transfiguration and after his resurrection.
In Orthodoxy, the Meaning of Life, the purpose of life is repentance. It’s lack of communion with God by which time becomes the manner in which humanity experiences life. There is no time in eternity, in the presence of God, no past or future. Repentance is why humanity has been removed from the Garden of Eden, from communion with God, and finds itself “driven out”, East of Eden in the Valley of the Shadow of Death.
To beg for more “time” is to know one’s need for repentance. Without humility no repentance. Without repentance no forgiveness. Without forgiveness no communion with God.
It is because Abba Sisoes has great faith in God that he wants more time for forgiveness.
In actuality he has communion with God and is “perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect”, but he is not conscious of that perfection. To become self conscious is to become proud and stumble. In being “last:, God made Abb Sisoes “first”.
D. Stall
August 30, 2014 at 3:57 am
he more I watch/listen to these videos, the more obvious it becomes that Herr Wheedon was looking for a “get out of Lutheranism free card” to quote his own words. When faced with demonic doubts about humbling himself to the Church and before the Theotokos, he crumbles because he wasn’t really interested in the Orthodox Church, only in leaving Lutheranism with which he’d become disenchanted. His gravitation to Orthodoxy was negative, a knee jerk reaction to his disappointment with LCMS, not a positive embrace in search of Truth.
Heb. 11: 1,6 “Faith in Action” –
“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen,
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God
must believe that He is a REWARDER of those who diligently seek Him.”
Matt. 7:7 “Ask and it will be given you; seek and you will find.
Wheedon found, but sought for the wrong reason, and when trial and temptation came, he found the ground of his heart unprepared to nuture the seed of faith, it withered, and like a dog returning to its vomit, he returns to wallow in the mud of the reformation. 2 Peter 2:22
Yes, the Church fathers held in paradox the two paradigms of salvation, but it was Rome that ignored Christus Victor and in so doing overemphasized the Anselmian “satisfaction” view of atonement. The abuses of Rome, her lording it over others like a worldly state, has given that view of atonement an incredibly negative association, and it falls on deaf ears today, and has fallen on deaf ears for a long time. People today need to hear that they have the potential to become like God and how a human goes about doing that. They need to hear about the spiritual dangers of the world, and how to guard and fight against them, not against each other. They need to understand the solidarity of human essence, how God is the lover of humanity, and the Father of Lies is the only real enemy of humanity. Hence, it is against him that humans rightly direct their anger, not against each other.
There is so much, much more that could be conveyed, but suffice to say, that if Luther’s doctrines were what Wheedon says they are, they would have been taught that way. Instead, “confessional” Lutheranism proceeded to count angels on pinheads and came to resemble scholasticism, to the point that Pietism sprang up in reaction to dry, intellectualism. The same old battle wages hundreds of years later between “conservative” confessionals and “liberal” pietists, only now American politics has been dragged into the fray, as if confessionalism is equated with the Republican party, and pietism with the Democratic.
If Wheedon can “reform” centuries of such haranguing, more power too him.
In the meantime the Church remains outside western European intellectual constructs as she has for 1200 or more years.
See –
The Orthodox Veneration of Mary the Birthgiver of God — St. John Maximovitch
St. Seraphim Orthodox Cathedral, Dallas – Interactive
Roll over asp and click on Mother of God Platyera
http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/02664_iconostasis_and_apse_1100x825.htm#interactive
Embracing Love
http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/iec_citation_serge_boulgakov.htm#embracing
Agnus Dei
April 12, 2016 at 6:31 pm
Um, it’s Pastor “WEEdon” nor “WHEEdon” and no true Christian would deny the need for repentance. The differences between East and West are as much cultural and linguistic as they are spiritual. I would never trade the joy of the Gospel I have as a Lutheran for the baggage that both Rome and Constantinople still carry from their imperial pasts.
infanttheology
August 30, 2014 at 4:24 am
D. Stall,
“To beg for more “time” is to know one’s need for repentance. Without humility no repentance. Without repentance no forgiveness. Without forgiveness no communion with God.”
No serious Lutheran would ever say there is communion with God without repentance of forgiveness so I am not sure what you are saying there.
And I have a hard time reconciling what you are saying with Romans 5:1 and I John 5:12-13.
“His gravitation to Orthodoxy was negative, a knee jerk reaction to his disappointment with LCMS, not a positive embrace in search of Truth.”
How can you be so confident of this your evaluation? I’ve never gotten the impression from Pastor Weedon that his interest in Orthodoxy was not sincere.
Mine was too, I believe.
+Nathan
white
June 3, 2017 at 9:35 pm
So I actually spent 2 hours watching both videos on the link you provided, and I must say I’m slightly disappointed. Unless I’m mistaken he has only 2 reasons for not being Orthodox
1) He feels the Orthodox’s veneration for Mary is excessive and bordering on worship. Something the Orthodox Church may or may not approve of
2) He feels the Orthodox fails to fully assure its believers of their salvation. Again, something the Orthodox Church may or may not be directly responsible for.
He then ends the sermon by quoting Church Fathers and saying that these Church Fathers are in support of Sola Scriptura, which I think is disingenuous as he’s quoting them way out of context. These same exact Fathers also has many quotes on what the Catholic/Orthodox consider “Holy Tradition” too. Unless I’m missing something?
So even though I’m neutral to all these denominations, I must say I find his points weak. In fact, he didn’t even spend much time discussing Orthodox Christianity theology. A complete newbie to Orthodoxy would not have learnt much about Orthodox beliefs just by those videos. Again, unless I’m missing something here…
Last but not least he called his experience “a dream that wasn’t real”. Except again, he fail to explain what he meant or what led him to such a conclusion. He just kept repeating that he knew something wasn’t right. Well… what?
I understand this is an old post, I don’t expect anyone to watch the videos again. That being said I am currently in this Orthodox “Dream” that Pastor Weedon talked about. And I would like to know specific reasons why I should get out of this “dream” I’m currently in.
In other words, I’m looking for specific reasons why I shouldn’t be Orthodox
Nathan A. Rinne
June 4, 2017 at 3:18 am
white,
“which I think is disingenuous as he’s quoting them way out of context. These same exact Fathers also has many quotes on what the Catholic/Orthodox consider “Holy Tradition” too. Unless I’m missing something?”
I think you are missing something. : ) No, Pastor Weedon has read a lot of these fathers. At the very least, he doesn’t think he’s misrepresenting them.
“He feels the Orthodox fails to fully assure its believers of their salvation. Again, something the Orthodox Church may or may not be directly responsible for.”
What is they are explicitly denying that any believer can know this kind of certainly? That has been my experience when I have asked those most knowledgeable about the faith.
+Nathan
white
June 4, 2017 at 10:01 am
“I think you are missing something. : ) No, Pastor Weedon has read a lot of these fathers. At the very least, he doesn’t think he’s misrepresenting them.”
Actually, so have I. The Fathers, generally speaking, believe in a curious mix of Scripture and this weird “Tradition” to determine truth. Something the Orthodox LOVE to point out. Now I don’t care what they think because I think they are just human, but since Pastor Weedon wants to quote them, it’s not fair to just quote the parts he like
Nathan A. Rinne
June 4, 2017 at 11:44 am
white,
Then you know that “tradition,” first and foremost, is that which is contained in Scripture, and in many cases, is being talked about as Scripture itself….
Can you provide more than a couple citations for me that clearly show it is not this above?
+Nathan
white
June 4, 2017 at 12:17 pm
>Then you know that “tradition,” first and foremost, is that which is contained in Scripture, and in many cases, is being talked about as Scripture itself….
I agree. Indeed it is. And that fits perfectly into the Orthodox narrative, since they see “Scripture” and “Tradition” as one and the same. Certainly not “Sola Scriptura” as Pastor Weedon puts it
white
June 4, 2017 at 12:40 pm
perhaps I should be clearer. The Orthodox see “Scripture” and “Tradition” as inseparable.
>”and in many cases, is being talked about as Scripture itself….”
I don’t know about this though…
“So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by Epistle of ours.” -John Chrysostom
“Therefore let us think the tradition of the Church also worthy of credit. It is a tradition, seek no farther. ” -John Chrysostom
“For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere. ”
– Iranaeus
Nathan A. Rinne
June 10, 2017 at 10:25 am
white,
“So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by Epistle of ours.”
That is a quote from Paul. And once he is gone, you have all you need in the Scriptures. Here is a post that might help: https://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2014/05/22/lutheran-convert-from-orthodoxy-christopher-jones-on-scripture-and-tradition/
+Nathan
cedars777
March 10, 2019 at 3:21 am
Bishop Mark was transferred to Alaska but was unable to go because of the long winterseason.